Tolkien thread

noetsi

Fortran must die
#1
Is the number of rings inversely related to the capacity of the group that used them?

9 rings for men (the least powerful individually of the races)
7 rings for dwarves
3 rings for elves (Tolkien had a love affair with them)

1 ring for the bad guy... arguably the most powerful individual on middle earth (although some might argue Olorin or Tom Bombadil who had no rings were stronger still).
 

bugman

Super Moderator
#2
It certainly looks that way.

After seeing the final hobbit instalment I have several addition pressing questions:

Did Bilbo get all of his furniture back?
What happened to the arkenstone?
How was the treasure divided up?
Who helped with the restoration of the lake settlement?
 

Miner

TS Contributor
#3
Bilbo bought his furniture back.
Thorin was laid to rest holding the Arkenstone on his chest.
The dwarves finally shared part of the treasure to rebuild Dale and Laketown, which was built at a different location.
 

noetsi

Fortran must die
#4
At the end of the third age, although it is barely mentioned in the Lord of the Rings, the dwarves of the restored kingdom of Erebor fight with the restored (men dominated) kingdom of Dale to defeat Orc and Eastlings. Dale is ruled by Bard's son (who dies with the former king of the Iron Mountains shown in the movie. Dwarves live longer than men). This saves the North from destruction including Rivendale. Interestingly Thranduril takes little part in this campaign if any. Later he does join the Elves of Lorien in destroying Dul Guldur who's forces assault Lorien, but are driven off.

Laketown was not rebuilt. Dragons were considered bad news and he lay buried in the town. Dale is the new, or old now restored, kingdom that replaces Laketown under a king (bard's son) rather than a mayor.

Bilbo does get most of his things back. He always suspects that some of his spoons, which meant a lot to Hobbits, were not returned. Interestingly he is given none of the dwarvish wealth except the mitharil armor. He does get two chests of gold from the Trolls shown in the first movie. This makes him very wealthy by Hobbit standards. :p

Amusingly Gandalf later notes that that the Mitharil shirt was worth more than all the value of the Shire. Not sure who he would have sold it to however. :p
 

Miner

TS Contributor
#5
Laketown was not rebuilt. Dragons were considered bad news and he lay buried in the town. Dale is the new, or old now restored, kingdom that replaces Laketown under a king (bard's son) rather than a mayor.
I believe that Laketown was rebuilt, but at a different location. I don't have my book handy, but here is one reference. I located others also.
 

noetsi

Fortran must die
#6
The kingdom of Dale replaced it. Cities did come into existence in the new kingdom and the people of Laketown did move to one.
 

Mean Joe

TS Contributor
#7
Amusingly Gandalf later notes that that the Mitharil shirt was worth more than all the value of the Shire. Not sure who he would have sold it to however. :p
Someone in the Shire could have created virtual goods. Then market speculation could have driven the value of those goods exceedingly high. Then that person could have traded stocks in his virtual company for the mithril.
 

noetsi

Fortran must die
#9
A fasinating question is whether Sauron controlled or influenced either Smaug or the Balrog. Both might well have considered themself the equal or superior to Sauron. In the first age sauron is declared as the chief lieutent of Morgoth, but the Captain of Angbad was actually a Balrog (who was slain at the storming of Gondolin).

Although Sauron and Smaugh were both in Mirkwood for a long period of time there is no indication either paid the other much attention. Although, in the appendix, Tolkien does have Gandalf say that Sauron could have used the dragon to great effect had he not been killed.
 

Karabiner

TS Contributor
#10
Is the number of rings inversely related to the capacity of the group that used them?

9 rings for men (the least powerful individually of the races)
7 rings for dwarves
3 rings for elves
All of these rings (n=19) were initially created
in order to be given to the elves. But the elves
immediately sensed that there was a master
ring which took control of them, so they only
kept (and hid) the 3 most powerful rings,
while Volde...Lord Vad... Stanley Milgr...
Sauron gave the remaining n=16 to men
and dwarves.

Or so.


With kind regards

K.
 

noetsi

Fortran must die
#11
While tolkien gives few details another account of this is that sauron took the rings from the elves by force in an assault of Eriador and then distributed them to others.Among the Dwarves Durin's folk claimed that they did not receive their Ring from sauron, persumably they got them from the High Elves of the region. Note that Sauron had a hand in forging all the rings except the Three Elvish rings. So regardless of who gave the Rings he influenced them throug the one ring.

The impact of the one ring on the Three Rings is unclear, but what is clear is that they lost their capacity when the one ring was destroyed. That is what finally brought to an end the last High Elvish kingdoms of Rivendale, Lorien, and the Grey Havens.